Does Skin Color Still Play A Large Role in America?

It is painful. I have siblings who are dark, who are, you know, much darker than I. And when they talk about the experiences of things that have been said to them, to my brothers, it's arresting by other black peep by other black people. You know? Mhmm. That's why I say words have power, and it is possible for you to adopt the framework of the very same people who subjugated you. When we turn to the other side, you seem to be suggesting that you were on the luckier side of things in terms of how race affected you versus maybe some of the people in your social circle. Yeah. And there were there any moments that were kind of on the negative side where something happened in your life that was related to race that had some kind of negative impact on you in the way that you felt about your race and, you know, being black in America? How can I put I'm gonna say it like this? The answer is not necessarily no, but the answer is those things can be mitigated when you quite frankly largely stick to your own group. So, you know, you know what I mean? And so like I said, we don't have and my I mean, I think my stepbrother has a white friend, but, like, my mama my mama don't have white friends. It's not like she's not friendly or whatever, but we just like I said, all my life, I've always been around, but it wasn't until I got grown and became an adult that I started living life around white people. And so and I don't know. I can't speak for other black people, but for me personally, a lot of that was mitigated because I just kinda stuck to my own group. Yeah. And or other minorities. If it wasn't my own group, other my because, I mean, my husband to be is Latino Yeah. Or other minorities. And sometimes it would happen with other minorities, but generally not. Yeah. Yeah. So for me yeah. Now had I've been like some of my friends who were one of few, then totally. It totally would've happened. But yeah. Through economic circumstance, I was never in a one of few environments. And I've just largely kinda stuck to my own group. Yeah. And probably because I was fearful of those experiences, so I just kinda stuck with black people. And did you experience any negative impacts within the black community? So you because you had mentioned Yep. Lighter, and I don't know the degree to which that mattered within your community. I mean I would explain it. So first of all, what I'm talking it may be new to you, but what I'm talking about is not new to black people, in the United States at all. There is definitely a framework of can well, I'm a how can I say this? Let me rephrase. There can be a framework of colorism with some black people. Yeah. And we in black community, we call it being color stroke. I had some members of my family who are color stroke and, you know, and that's when I learned that lighter is more palatable, lighter was more desired. And so I've had friction sometimes with black people because of stereotypes about white people that we're uppity, like, that we're, you know, that we basically think we're better because we are lighter. That's the messaging that comes through sometimes in society. And I won't mind, maybe sometimes I've unwittingly carried myself in that manner. Or sometimes maybe when I was feeling insecure, I've wittingly carried myself in that manner. I'll own that. You know. But it was I'm telling you now the motivation's insecurity. It was never because I deeply thought I'm better than other people. It's because I felt insecure about some aspect of my life and that's a way to feel triumph over others. Yeah. And, but yeah. And it is painful. I have siblings who are dark, who are, you know, who are darker. Yeah. I just a tad much, much darker than I. And when they talk about the experiences of things that have been said to them, to my brothers, it's arresting by other black peep by other black people, you know? Mhmm. That's why I say words have power, and it is possible for you to adopt the framework of the very same people who subjugate it and to apply that framework in situations. And whether you're winning or unwittingly do it, you're applying that framework which is still perpetuating a vicious cycle. Right? And architecting an environment where people don't have as much support to living a thriving life. I know with respect to black women because I have a lot of black female friends who are very close to me. Like, you know, it sends a clear message when all the black men in your life only date light skinned black women. So okay. Like, you know what I mean? That like, actions and words and messages. Like, they just do. And that that's her that can be hurtful. You know? Because like I said, because, I mean, who doesn't want to find the one and share your life? And then you feel like that's gonna be hard or more difficult than others just because you were born looking a certain way. Yeah. Really sit with that. That it that my finding a partner in life is gonna be harder because of something I just could not control because I was born with a certain skin color. Yeah. That's hard. And that and that hurts feelings. That's hurtful. That is hurtful. Yeah. Well, yeah, if I feel like it's I mean, you're getting not just at the hurtful feelings, you're also getting at just the powerlessness because you alone cannot, by yourself, change the norms. I mean, certainly, you can protect yourself. Like, you protected yourself in a certain way, right, as you were suggesting. So there's not no actions, but your actions are limited. Yeah. And I also wanna talk about I believe the converse is the correct word used. The converse of that and I'm gonna own this as a light skinned black person. So we're gonna talk about my individual experience, The sense of being feeling powerful over something you had no control over. Yeah. Knowing that I can walk into a store and probably not get followed around. Or no. Don't get me wrong. Like I said, I always remember I'm black. So anything can happen to me. Yeah. But, you know, knowing that in the dating world that I could be desired because of being light skinned, like Yeah. That's an ego trip. It is. And you know and I really strive the times to because I know this will be seen by people that I have been disrespectful or irreverent or seem as though I was coming across as better. I publicly want to apologize to anyone who sees this, and they've experienced that was their experience of me. Yeah. And as well to tell you that that was insecurity manifesting itself. Yeah. And totally my egoic-self trying to self-protect the child within and with respect to my own narrative about myself. Yeah. It's not I would offer it to the world that that's not the truth of who I am. Yeah. But it is an ego trip knowing that you have a sense of power, if you will, because of your skin color. And that's the closest thing I can understand to maybe, to possibly, being white, the fact that I have light skin. With respect to living it wasn't until I got grown that I started living my life around white people. You were the first of that. Right? So in my life, I went from living in a mostly black neighborhood. There were some white people, but mostly black neighborhood with and a lot of Asian people as well to going to college with you, and it was the first time that I was in a residential setting with white people. So it's different. We have a friend and maybe go over their house every now and again or whatever. But when you're in a residential setting, so and that means something. Sharing a bathroom with white people and seeing how white people live. And I, boy, oh, boy, oh, boy, do I remember conversations with other black people Uh-huh. When we got to university comparing notes about how let me not how people live. Were you anxious at all? Because in that clip, you talk about sticking to your own. Right? Like, how important I mean, Andre, if I listened to when I listened to that just now, it came up multiple times. Right? Career, you talked about that's why we wanna be entrepreneurs. Right? It's a sense of not wanting to or being hesitant at the very least being interdependent with white people, right? Not having your own destiny, you know, control of your own destiny in some way, sticking to your own socially, sticking to your own when it comes to work. So there was a common theme, you know, having listened to it again, that comes out in these multiple aspects, but then here you are being thrown in this new situation where you had this motivation to stick with your own and you clearly don't have that ability anymore. What was that were you anxious about that? Like, what was there an adjustment in in with that in particular for you? I have answers to all of these. So first to that question, I you know how something can happen to you that's so new that you're naive? So I was very naive when I went to university and had to learn the ways of presenting and being around white people. And I cringe at some of my moments, just because I just didn't have so where others of other black people of our university were one of few, and there were a lot of whites in their experiences. They knew how to show up around white people, whereas I just showed up the way I'd always been showing up in the right, you know, for in right front of anyone, and at times that was rebuffed. Do you give a specific experience of what that looks like? Like, what is I'd rather not. What's that? I don't wanna relive it because it does, I mean, that that was just it was rebuffed. So but in general, I was not I wasn't anxious because I just didn't know what I was getting into. But as I understood where I was and what I was getting into, then I became anxious. Like, wait a minute. This is a different environment. There are different rules of engagement in this environment. I don't wanna push you into share, you know, reliving something that you don't wanna relive. Maybe if we can put aside the being rebuffed for it, you don't have to think about that. But if you could just explain maybe what it's what it means to present yourself in a certain way that's well received and what it means to present yourself in a way that's more natural to your upbringing. Like, what's because I don't even have a sense of what that what that would look like, especially because as you just shared, I felt like we got along really well. I don't know that maybe there were times that that I made you feel uncomfortable because of my reactions, but I always felt you were just Andre. Right? And there didn't seem to be anything extraordinarily different that I even took note of. You know, I mean, you had different phrases that you use. In fact, one person used the phrase recently. First time I've heard it since college, all that in a bag of chips. I was like, I know who used to say that. And that's an example. So yeah. So you just would have phrases, but I always found them I don't know. I mean, endearing is probably not the right word, but you had a different language. Right? You just had different sayings. I had different sayings. And so I didn't really ever I don't really know what that looks like, Andre, to need to present yourself in one way and then feel the need to present yourself in another way. I can explain it to you. In all environments, there are rules of engagement. There are social norms. There's a way you present. There's a way you show up. And there are 2 personas, both public and private. And what I didn't know were the rules of engagement of how to show up around white affluent people and how to present and how to you know so that I mean, part of, I mean, part of university is learning, but it's also to make social connections. I mean, Facebook existed for a reason. It's the social network. So that's a very pivotal time in a young person's life. And if you navigate it definitely, you could come out on the other end very successful. And I just was not cognizant of any of that. I did was not cognizant of any of the implications of nurturing a social success and learning the rules of engagement of social success. I got lucky with you. The fact that we became friends, and now we're doing this, you know, project that I pray impacts the world. And, you know, you never judged me for, like, for example, phrase phraseology I may have used. Right? But there are others in that environment who would have judged that. Right? Like, who would have, you know, there are black people who have worked very hard to be associated with the best of what we have to offer as a race and as individuals. And depending on how you present, sometimes that may be diminished by how you're presenting. So what does it take to be socially what does it take to be social? Because I actually I mean, this is another example of something that you seem to have been really conscious of, and I After the fact, yes. At the time, I was not Yeah. Right. That you felt the need to be conscious of after the fact. I understand that. I'm still not conscious of that. Like, what when you say, what does it mean That's sweet. That that's no. That that's really sweet about you. Look. Look. What does it mean to be socially successful? Like, like, what did you feel I'm gonna tell you. What did you learn? What are, like, 1 or 2 examples? What? I'm gonna let me use you as an example. Use me as an example. Seen it. I've never used you as an example. I've seen it. Yeah. For example, you come from a Jewish heritage. You are a very smart guy. I have always, I've always been you know, I had a deep respect for your intellect. You could this world would have could have been your oyster. 1st, Stanford. You clearly did well academically. Leverage that into investment banking. Take that investment banking. Leverage that through a hedge fund. And you could have, you know, used the fact that you are Jewish. You come from a Jewish background. You completely understand Jewishness and your intellect. And from a material perspective, I'm not emotionally people are on their own. But socially successful from a material perspective, you could have created all kinds of relationships that could have brought hordes of material success to you. And not only that, coming from LA, the film industry, the TV industry, like, you know, and I say that about I'd say number 1, because you have the talent. Number 2, you come from a community where many people have been successful in those arenas and those disciplines like banking and then entertainment. Right? And you were well placed in an environment. And what I mean by social success when you're someone like me who comes, you know, from a large city but from, you know, from a no name community in that large city, from one of many public schools, you know, you're on you're trying to transition cast. And I've I have transitioned cast in my life, but the whole premise of, you know, me being at that university or not the whole, but part of the premise of my desire to go. And this is both on my part and what people projected onto me was to attain a certain amount of social success so that it can bring material success. You know, like, making the right connections, meeting the right peep being friends with the right people's children. I mean, should you think people are outrageously wealthy now? They were wealthy back then. But I had no I just saw just as a university experience. I was not cognizant of any of that. And now that I am, I wonder maybe my life could have been very different had I come from a background. And who knows? Like, you know, I had a friend once tell me that the kind of place where we went to school, white people didn't come there and meet us. So that's why you don't you may have some lasting friendships with a few black people, but not with a lot of black people. They came there for their own, you know, to achieve their own social success and cross population of social networks and such. But that's what it means to me. And just when you're cognizant of it, when you're prepared for it, you can really leverage that to some huge opportunities in the in those early years and even later in life. So I'm still having a little hard time, like, grabbing on to what does that what it actually looks like because what you brought up was the idea of presenting yourself. Right? And that a certain way of presenting to yourself leads to social success. Mhmm. And you're black. That's true. Yes. And then and then you had to learn that differently when you went to university. So, like, what's something you would have said previously, and then you wouldn't have said it or said it in I'll use that. I cringe in using that kind of vernacular with you and other people at university. Vernacular like, he's all chips, for example. I cringe at that now that I'm an adult and trying to be professional. And the reason I cringe is because now I understand that people judge your language, and your language and the, you know, phraseology that you architect when you are communicating to people, says something about you or people wanted to say something about you. You know, when people start using a lot of a lot of large words, what people would call SAT words, which I tend to do. Oh, that's another thing I noticed. I love the way that I speak. But when you because I learned to integrate both. I learned to integrate all that in a bag of chips and the word vernacular. But that took time to do, you know, because and I realized that, you know, I need to with I need to show a certain face to show these people that I'm someone who would be worthy of your social connection, and we can help each other's social success. And when you're black people, we really have to prove that because we're already being, you know, sort of looked down upon for being black. And people have all these stereotypes about being black that you what if, you know, you're not educated. You or at least if you are educated, then you come from a background that's not educated. And you have nothing of real value to offer a white person of wealth, which is not true. But when you're around all of that, you really have to be mindful that that, that, notion could undergird how they're perceiving you in a moment. And something with, like, such as language, you know, the phrase all that in a bag of chips. Yeah. That's fun and everything, and it's and it's and it's, you know, endearing, but it also, you know, ask yourself when you're not from a community where you express yourself in such a way. You're like, who says that, and what does that mean by the person who's using it? So what so what I'm hearing if I if I and I and I know you don't wanna get into the details of it. I mean, if you, unless you do wanna feel comfortable sharing. You went so we met in university. You came from this, you know, one of many backgrounds, though I still have questions about that with regard to the school you went to. And working class. So this is I want everyone to understand there is a black elite. Like, there isn't but I'm no way I've I did was no way part of it. So what I've observed what I had observed is that African American people, black people who were part of the black elite had a much easier time in that transition. Many of them also people who went to, East Coast Boarding Schools. And we know who they are. We know this who the schools are, but they had an easier time with that transition, and I came from none of that. Like, I hate to put it like this, but I was, you know, plucked right out of working class, you know, black every everyday living city and then put in this very illustrious environment, I guess you'd say. So I was one of many in my background but look at the many I was apart. I was the many you know, the people that I went to school where they didn't become CEOs and start tech companies and shit like that. I mean, they came they became professionals, but not to the extent that you would see from the from our university background. Mhmm. So you came from that background. You're now thrown into this situation where you're one of few. It sounded like and tell me if I'm not hearing this correctly. You also felt some sense of responsibility, pressure, expectation around making the most of your experience there, as a way to be upwardly mobile economically. Yes, definitely. And so and then you were naive, as you put it, in the sense that you just felt like you could be yourself and express yourself. But then in some ways, as you put it, you got rebuffed. So you get some sort of signal from the environment that, hey, to be that is not all right. And you have to deal with being in a one of few environments. You have to deal with all the expectations that you feel you have in terms of making the most out of it, and so you feel a motivated. Couple that with being a homosexual. Yeah. Yeah. Who. Add that into it. So you feel this motivation to correct in some way, to learn what the norms are of communication to be socially successful, you know, professionally successful? We can talk about university. We can talk about race. I've even had to do navigate this front as a I self-identify everyone as a gay man, as a gay man. Like, I had to learn Mhmm. How to show up around and to this day, I don't have very many gay male friends. I had to learn how to show up around gay men Yeah. Of all races and especially black gay men. You know? So black communities have, you know, been harsh on gay men. But, I mean, I had to learn the rules of engagement, how you show up, how you present. So let me let me let me ask you a question. I didn't have to deal with being rebuffed as you said. Right? No. You didn't. I was just being who I am. Like you said, Californian, Southern Californian. I although a lot of people thought I was from the East Coast because of my directness. So I but this is Todd. Todd is showing up the way Todd knows how to show up, the way Todd has learned how to show up. If I get and this is because I don't really know what being rebuffed looks like. If I do get like, if someone doesn't like who Todd is in some ways, I think, you know, I wouldn't necessarily say this, but to hell with you for, you know, for lack of a better terminology. Right? It's like, I'm gonna find the people who accept who I am, who like who I am. Like, I'm not thinking about how to socially adjust. I'm thinking I'll find where my place is. What I'm just expressing my experience, and so I'm trying through and through that trying to understand what motivated you to feel like you had to adjust who you were? What did you think wouldn't happen if you didn't adjust? Thank you for watching this episode of Healing Race. To see the answer to the question you just heard, stay with us for a link to our next video. If you wanna see more healing race conversations, please subscribe to our channel, share this video with friends and family, and like and comment on the video below. To be a guest on one of our episodes and have an open, real, constructive conversation about race, email us at guests at healingracehow.com. And if there are topics you think we should cover, we'd love to hear them. So email your ideas to topics at healing race show dot com. 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