Are Black Americans Held To Higher Standards of Performance?
A first conversation about race starts here...
In this episode, Todd and Andre discuss the challenges that Black Americans face as they aspire to create the careers and relationships they desire, and how those challenges impact the kind of Black person they can be.
In a world where career success depends on the social relationships you develop with people who have influence and networks of opportunity, what pressures exist for members of the Black community to adapt the way they present themselves to the world?
Let’s get to that conversation now. Enjoy…
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Episode Transcript
When you're black, people don't expect that you can do shit. That's where race comes from. Sometimes, your own equal. So you're constantly, even when you're rich and black, having to prove yourself. Baby, you have to understand people think the worst things about us, the worst things. And some people don't even believe we even fit to walk this planet. So you have to bring you have to be beyond the best to, you know, to show what you can deliver in this life. What motivated you to feel like you had to adjust who you were? What did you think wouldn't happen if you didn't adjust, who you were? Because this has come up a lot. This comes up a lot in the discourse around race is this feeling of the pressures of adapting to different cultures or what some might call white dominant culture. Right? And so that's why I'm asking the question. Does that make sense at all? I don't know it. But okay. Can you help me understand? Like, what are the pressures that move you to feel like you have to adapt in that way? So first of all, reputation. And you're trying whether you're in university or you're in a professional setting, you are trying to create relationships and make a success of your current situation in order to leverage it to bigger and better things. You have you have goals. Right? The things you want to achieve and create in this life in this world, and no one does that alone. And you need a reputation such that people will want to align with you to say, hey. Give investing in this person be with my time or whatever resource I have is worth doing. And that all starts with how you present. Right? Like, if you I mean, if you go to a cocktail party and you just are completely, you know, you just are outside the rules of engagement. How many people there and especially if you know that, hey. Some of these people in this room could really help me leverage. You are gonna find out what do I need to do? How do I need to present in order to make a success at this situation? That's what the pressures are. And when with respect to being gay, it's getting a date. Right? I mean, I wanna get a date. I wanna get fucked. So I need to learn I need to learn how to present myself so that gay men wanna date me and fuck me. And the same with being black. So I see this a lot within corporate America that you are trying to get promotions or and also more challenging products you're trying to grow. And these people who are higher ups or who are influential to the higher ups are the gatekeepers of your reputation. You know, they they're talking outside of the normal circles. They you know, these people, they their children's go their children go to the same schools, they're in the same neighborhood, and you have to be into that. If you're not plugged into that network or have a sponsor who's plugged in that network, you willing to expend capital political capital on your behalf, it's very challenging. And all that starts with how you present. Like, it's crucial. It's the cornerstone of at least in US life of doing well. So you see these things that you want, right, that you desire. When you grow up porn, blah blah blah blah. Professional success, relationship success, you’re one of you're feeling like you're one of few You're living in a 2 bedroom with 2 mommy and 2 brothers. You get negative feedback in terms of how you're presenting, and you start to realize that because you don't have networks into the things that you want, love and, you know, financial and career success that you need to adapt to the way that you are in order to develop those relationships. So I guess the question is because I'm just trying to think about my own my own experience. And I and I think there is to some extent adaptations that we all need to make, and I'll explain kind of the one that came to mind for myself. Mhmm. But what I think I hear you saying as well, and tell me if I'm incorrect in this, is that some people grow up in places where they learn the kinds of norms They do. That will already Prepare them. Enable, integrating into these, you know, and taking advantage of these networks. And you just felt like you it didn't come naturally to you, and so you had to you felt pressure to learn it. Is that what you're expressing? Okay. Don't cry. That is what I'm expressing, and what I'm saying this is what I'm expressing. And, yes, people grow up, but it's not happenstance. I once read this book. I don't remember the author, but the title of the book is called the, the meritocracy trap. And it starts have you ever heard this book? I mean, it's very, very good and blew the roof off of my mind. Wow. And, you know, when people are trying to get their kids into uber competitive, you know, preschool programs that, like, I mean, like, with application processes like a PhD program. And when parents are paying for have their children to be tutored by Harvard professionals like this, and not only that, but it also starts even before it starts when you meet your partner. When a what a college educated man who is trying to occupy a certain station in life is looking for a partner, whether that's same gender or opposite gender, whatever. But you're looking for because I even see this with gay men. Looking for a partner that is going to align with those values and is if you're heterosexual, you wanna have children, you know, you're looking for a woman who is highly educated, masters, who, you know, understands the world that you wanna occupy and the way you wanna serve and all those different things. And there you there is a deliberate preparedness that begins with the family if you want to occupy a certain role at a certain cast. And if you did not start out in that cast, if you are a cast migrant, then you have to catch up quickly. What made you emotional about that when you were about to Because I realized that much later in life. Mhmm. And I wonder what I could have been had I realized it earlier. Mhmm. So we'll see. I'm not dead yet, but, you know, it's just like, you know, like, you're yeah. Like, you just you wonder that, and all of that centered around blackness and which black person you get to be and all that other different stuff. You know, you've never been called ghetto. Do you know have you even heard that? The term? Yeah. Of course, I've heard that. But I Yeah. Of course, I've heard that. Means tacky, uneducated, all sorts of, you know, negative things. Right? And don't get me wrong. I've used it. A lot of black people have used it about one another, about life in general, like all sorts of things. But, you know, that's what that's what we have to as black professionals, as black individuals in United States, that's what we have to come combat against. How do I show you, like, let's say corporate America. How do I show these white managers that, you know, I'm worthy of being on a project. I'm worthy of being promoted to partner, senior manager, etcetera. That they should take my ideas, you know, so that that all starts with your hairstyle, with your dress, with your cadence of speech, with the verbiage that you use, how you craft a PowerPoint. Like, we are being judged on such minute things. Like, I'm sorry. I'm surprised most black people don't have strokes because there's just so much you have to take into consideration. And that's from a professional perspective why I bought up entrepreneurship. Because hell, when you own your own stuff, you can do it your way. You know, people get tired of that rat race, and this is you feel constantly judged and to feel that way racially. And then from perspective, my sexual orientation is quite tiring. So get being called ghetto, that's an example of being rebuffed. Yeah. Even in your own even in your own and don't get me wrong because I've used that word, so I'm not innocent. But even in your own community, that that an example is like, what may seem, quote, unquote, ghetto or tacky to one person just maybe the rules of engagement in the environment back where you come from. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. It seems on the I mean, maybe We're not all living in the same reality. Like, you pointed out. Seems like you still like, do you still feel the pressure of these expectations? I asked that because, you know, when you say what you could have been, I mean, when I think of who Andre is and who Andre has become and what you've achieved, I think I think success. Because you're sweet, and you're just looking me as a success as a person. No. I'm looking at you as a success professionally too. Why are you not successful? So I think I think the reason I bring this up is because I didn't grow up in that same ambitious don't get me wrong. My mom is super ambitious. You know? Mhmm. She had to be, being a female doctor at the time that she started becoming a female doctor. You know, she I don't know if I shared this previously, but, you know, she took a trip to Russia, you know, where my grandmother was from. She was, in particular, the Ukraine part of it. And she saw how they lived there, and it changed her life. That was, as you put, a seminal moment where she said, wow. Like, life could be like this. Like, really hard. I better make something of myself. And so she had crazy ambition, right, for herself and her family. And I actually don't I don’t, but it didn't rub off on me at all. And so when I to her about that, and maybe the evolution she went through and her journey in life to into medicine is very dominated field and learning the rules of engagement around male doctors. And, like, that's what I'm talking about. It's very similar what you're showing. Yeah. So you that's what I'm making the connection is you feel very similar, it sounds like, in this kind of change of where you came from to where you're going. And yeah, my mom has, you know, insatiable in some ways or at least had ambition. And that's I guess maybe that's where I can understand why you feel emotional about it because I you know, like, I my original instinct was why are you, you know, why do you feel sad looking back at what you could become? I feel like you are a success, but it sounds like you still feel that pressure to do more and do better. Yes. I do. I do. And so I was just wanting to know where that where that emotion came from. I'm trying to Where it comes from. That helped me, by the way, like, understand a lot. Thank you. Now it makes me it really it gives me a sense of that of your trajectory from what you described, where you came from, and where you want to go, and what your college experience Mhmm. Was like. I I'm trying to understand the relation of race to this. If you could just, I don't know, share with me a bit because I'm trying to think where because when you're black, people don't expect that you can do shit. Mhmm. That's where race comes from. Sometimes your own people. Mhmm. So you're constantly even when you're rich and black, having to prove yourself. Because when you're black, you have to understand now I'm becoming really southern. Baby, you have to understand. People think the worst things about us, The worst things. And some people don't even believe we even fit to walk this planet. So you have to bring you have to be beyond the best to, you know, to show what you can deliver in this life. What does that what does it look like for someone to show to show that sentiment to you? Like, where did you or how did you get that message that that was the case? Is this something I'm trying to get a sense of what you're it's kind of similar to the to the to the conversation we had around threat of physical harm. I'm trying to get a sense. Is this something you picked up through people sharing this with you that this was the case? Is this something you picked up from the pop culture, or is this something that you've had spoken to you in some way or where a message was given to you in an interaction professionally or personally? I picked it up in 2 ways. I don't remember any specific incident where well, I do remember some specific incident, but I don't wanna get into all that. Number 1, when people when you shit when you tell your family your dreams and they push saw they push saw you, like, you know, when and they really basically tell you, you know, you're delusional or whatever. And then what I I've also seen this sort of eagerness to be very critical and denigrate black people who have made tremendous contributions. So in any field, whether it's in entertainment, medicine, or whatever, where the rest of the world can be hypercritical of them and their achievement. And it just has this air to it that deep down, you don't believe I mean, we have always been painted as being stupid, right, by racist white people. That was a motivation coming out since slavery. And so it's like a black person did that. I don't believe that quote unquote n word did that because they're not smart enough to do something like that. And like I said, all of these things I mean, the reason it's tough to see, and maybe for other people, is because it's so interwoven. And where you may, you know, as a person may be critical of me, let's say let's say this show goes well, whatever. And then people are critical of me. Like, oh, those are just detractors. But in some way, there's a way of saying things and phrasing it and posing it where you know they're saying as because he's black, he's less deserving. Or because I can't believe that a black person, you know, I mean, I'll be quite honest with you. When I was watching this footage, I felt a sense of pride in myself and also for black people. Because if you look at the logistics of this, this is a white man and a black man debating. And I'm bringing just as much intelligence, sensitivity, and wholeness to this conversation as you are. You and your advantages are being a white person are not eclipsing me at all when I when I look at this footage. Just even being detached and trying to look at as a viewer. Yeah. And I felt a sense of pride in that. I said, I wonder will there be black people and say, look at this black guy. Look at this guy's here, you know, debating this white boy and bringing all the fullness of himself to the table. Not and not letting his light diminish because I'm trying to, you know, defer to your whiteness and white isn't right. And if it comes from your mouth, it's cool. You know? That it's gospel. No. You know? And where one person, maybe you, let's say, in the conscious of the show, will look at that and say, well, people, like I said, they're just being detractors, haters, etcetera. And I'm like, no. What they're insinuating is that they’re surprised I'm capable because I'm black. Mhmm. And that's rude. Thank you for watching this episode of Healing Race and stay with us for a scene from our next video. If you wanna see more conversations like the one you just watched, please subscribe to our channel, share this video with friends and family, and like and comment on the video below. If you'd like to be a guest on one of our episodes and have an open real conversation about race, email us at guests at healingracehow.com. And if there are topics you think we should cover, we'd love to hear them. So please email your ideas to topics at healingracehow.com. As always, thanks for your support. We look forward to continuing the conversation with you. Now, here's a scene from our next Healing Race. Given that we all in some way need to adjust to the professional world, right, we all in some way try to adapt ourselves to make sure we're accepted by our clients, our coworkers, and the like. What is it to you that you feel you needed to adjust that was racially defined in some way, that was racially relevant. Right? Because I had to adjust, but I'm assuming you think, maybe I shouldn't assume this, that there are components of who you think you are as a or how you express yourself as a black person that wasn't accepted. To watch the rest of that episode, go ahead and click the video below me. To see a different compelling healing race episode, you can click the video below me. We look forward to seeing you in the next video.