Do Black Americans Still Have Reason to Live On Guard

There's just a theme with, you know, the way black people, African Americans, and those in African diaspora have had to adapt themselves to move around this country is, you know, self-preservation is in the back of your mind. You know, whether it's your physical preservation, your emotional preservation, your financial preservation, like, you know, it's I mean, it's a way of living of always being on guard. What did you worry about happening? Like, what did you wanna protect against? You had images, I'm guessing in your mind of what could happen, and say being murdered by white people. Okay. Like and I'm don't cry. Don't cry. Like, being physically harmed by white people. Being drugged, put being attached to these people's car and dragging, being drugged like James Byrd back in 1998. By being harmed by white people. Being my physical person, that's what I think about now, being harmed by white people. That really hit me, Andre, as you know. It's the moment I kept coming back to. What were you like, how do you respond now watching it? What were you what were you feeling? Because you had a lot of feeling there clearly. I wanted to emphasize to you that violation of your personhood is a very real thing, and it's something that rests in the mind probably of many, if not all, black people and especially black men. And I don't want people or you, since this is a conversation with you, to feel like what you see on television well, those are extremes, like, you know, everything that's in the media and so forth. You know, like, when the text messages of the, you know, alleged people who I know the trial is going on with Ahmaud Arbery, and we have to be careful with that language. But when those text messages were released, you know, that reminded me that there are people who have thoughts that they could transmute into action that results in violating my personhood. Right? And that is a very real thing. And I want it and not only is it real, but it’s also an urgent thing, because it shouldn't be. And I wanted to communicate the emotion. The motivation behind the emotion was to communicate that sense of urgency to you. I wanna know, have you intuited those words, and what have what do those words mean to you? Mhmm. I mean, I it's I've heard people talk about the talks about how to carry oneself, as a as a black person in America. Right? Yeah. So I know that there is a presence in in one's mind in in the community. Like, when I was stopped at border patrol a few days ago coming back from Costa Rica. Go ahead, Todd. But yes. Did and I and when I was stopped at border patrol, the first thing that came to mind is carry yourself. What's your presence? Dis because it was 2 white agents, disarm them. Disarm them. Adjust your personality to disarm them. Mhmm. Yeah. In your emotion, I could feel how much this weighed on you. Right? Like, we feel emotions about the things that our, you know, psychological system is looking out for usually on a on a regular basis, either consciously or unconsciously. And yes. The deep emotion that you seem to feel even though you're trying to control it because we're recording. Right? Mhmm. It was really the first time that I got a sense of what the theoretical conversations about how one needs to carry oneself and how one needs to protect, and focus on preservation, what that looks like in someone's mind and how much it, weighs on you, in this case, emotionally. But have you ever had any moment in your yourself where you felt your, you know, your personal safety or yeah. You know, physical personhood could be violated? Yeah. So I was in, Eastern Europe Mhmm. And I was alone traveling around Europe, and I decided to take a night train from Prague to Poland. I believe I was going to Warsaw. And I was in a cart by myself. So, you know, here I was alone in a kind of 4-to-6-person, room, you know, in on this train. Had all my stuff, you know, that all the things I had on you know, when I was backpacking. Yes. And all of a sudden, the train stopped. Some folks got on and they started knocking on door after door after door. And here I was alone. Mhmm. I could hear the police, trying to search for people. I heard, you know, yelling and people, clearly feeling, you know, scared and worried and needing to get away. And I sat there just holding on to the backpack, praying, you know, in my own form of, you know, non-religious prayer, just hoping, I guess, that, they wouldn't knock on my door. Mhmm. Right? Because I had no idea what would happen. I didn't know who these people were. I didn't know if they had weapons. I didn't know Don't speak the local language. I don't speak the local language, and I'm just alone. And it's dark, and there's no one around. And, you know, I didn't hear the police right away. I just found out later that clearly something had been going on, and I was right to feel at least a little bit of anxiety and fear. So, yeah, I have actually been in a moment where I have felt that that feeling of, you know, I could be physically harmed in some way. Mhmm. And so I'm guessing you're asking you know, you're asking me is wondering Well, what is it where I can really connect with what that feeling would feel like and maybe even over some kind of regular basis. That's my endgame question. Yes. But also just in this moment, what does that bring up for you telling that story and then hearing me talk about my fears? Yeah. Well yeah. I mean, I in even in that moment without even thinking of this particular experience, you know, clearly had some ability to project myself into that moment Mhmm. Your moment. Were you also conscious of presence? Meaning, okay. Whatever is going on here, I need to I need to make sure that my I present myself in such a way that I can secure my safety. Like, I can see, like Yeah. I mean, I guess what I thought about in that moment, I took valuables. Like, so I had a really expensive camera because I was gonna be going to Africa after that. So I had Yeah. I had a camera that, you know, when that would work on safari. Oh, definitely in the moment, you are thinking what are what are things they might see that might give them ideas. I guess I should tell you. I mean, there's there is you know, I'm even thinking back now that you're asking me these questions. I'm thinking back on, after high school, I went on a trip to Europe with some friends of mine. On the last night, we were in Paris before leaving. We decided, you know, being the naive and not, you know, ultra, I guess, responsible, people, kids. We decided we were gonna go out for the night. We had no idea, different areas in Paris, you know, whether we should be in different areas at night. And we went by the, found a place by the edge of the Seine River, just enjoying reflecting on our trip. Mhmm. We hear up on the street level, people breaking glass. Next thing we know, some you know, a few guys are walking down. I can't remember how many there were, but, walking down drunk, and we got robbed at knife point. Wow. Yeah. Thinking about those, you know, if what I what I'm hearing from you is, you know, Todd, hey. That experience that you had and the feelings that were involved are feelings that you presumably have on some kind of regular basis, at least in some my point. Think of having to walk around with that kind of tension in your spirit and in your body every day. Yeah. Not only every day, all around the world. Because many cultures have issues with black people. Or when I say issues, I mean they have negative opinions about black people. So think if you have to walk with that, live with that every day all around the world. Yeah. And that was that was the emotion that we saw. It was in stating that out loud, it was presumably not just the fear right there, but just the feeling of the weight. I'm just maybe this is not the case, but what I what I intuited was the feeling, you know, that that outpouring of emotion was the feeling of the weight of having to have that anxiety on a regular basis and the kind of ongoing effect that it has on you. Am I right in that? Did I intuit it right? Is that what I think I was saying? In that. You're right in that, and my desire to communicate that to you. Yeah. That's it. That's what I use the word urgency because you can't that's not a feasible way to live. And like I said, it just needs to stop. Right? The urgency about it. Yeah. It had that effect. Mhmm. I mean and it is. It's just I mean, it's just a theme with, you know, the way black people, African Americans, and those in African diaspora have had to adapt themselves to move around this country is, you know, self-preservation is in the back of your mind. You know, whether it's your physical preservation, your emotional preservation, your financial preservation, like, you know, it's I mean, it's a way of living of always being on guard. And do you understand because I kept emphasizing all you have to do is look at American history. And now, you know, and you're an educated person, now do you have a tangible sense of, you know, number 1, where that would have come home and why it exists and why it probably persists to this day? Yeah. I yeah. I think I do. I no. I definitely do. No. I don't think I do. I think the question that that that that I sit with, that I don't have an answer to, but that I deeply yearn for an answer to, is what gets us to a place where we could take risks to create new narratives. Right? Because there's a sense, I think, in each of us, I imagine, I haven't met a person who hasn't who I've gotten to know who hasn't felt this, where we want to be different than the way people see us. Or at least I think the way we think people see us. Mhmm. Mhmm. And the way that people see us can confine who we think we can be. Mhmm. And I'm trying to search in my mind how do we get to a place where we can be the people, we want to be to each other, white and black? Right? Where we're not governed by these narratives. Right. And where we can show ourselves in a in a fuller humanity, all, you know, all the wonder of it and all the scars and, you know, blemishes and, which you do, you know, which I hope we both do. You know, it's the moment we started with was one of those moments, right, of you revealing something, emotionally that was way more powerful than even the words that you said, even though the words you said were also powerful. So and there were and part of the reason I asked that question, or that I'm left with it, is because I, you know, when I thought about when I when I listened to myself talk about the historical narrative of being Jewish, I actually said something that that some portion of Jews would disagree with. When I said when I was commenting on the history in Germany, and I don't actually know all of the history of Germany, I'm sure there was anti Semitism. Don't get me wrong. What I was trying to say in that moment was, you know, there was a big change, it seemed to me, between the way that Jews were present in that culture in Germany and then when, you know, the switch flipped to, you know, the Nazi era, right? And again, I'm not saying that it's not like that switch flipped and all of a sudden there was this new thing. There were obviously currents of it prior to that. But in terms of what I'm imagining, and I may be wrong, was the Jewish experience, there was like a night and day difference, even if some of the, they knew some of the currents were there. And then there was this consolidated period of time that was World War 2 and the holocaust. And then there was certainly a transition away from it. It's not like all of a sudden, we're all good with each other. I mean, clearly, I told the story of my grandfather, and I tell more of it in later episodes where those impacts continue to be felt. Mhmm. But you see in my family, even a change over the course of generations. Right? And what I was trying to say is we, at least in our family, were allowed to make that transition over the course of generations from my grandparents to my mom, who's their daughter, to myself. And I was trying to understand in reflecting on my comments there why some people in the Jewish community will, you know, continue to talk about the historical antisemitism that has really existed. You know, we have holidays around the things that were done to us as a people. Right? Mhmm. So, you know, being slaves in Egypt and, the sacking of our temples, you know, we got we got Passover and Hanukkah. Right? Mhmm. And so there is a way in which we tell a narrative, a historically a historical narrative in the Jewish community Mhmm. Mhmm. Of all the ways that we have been persecuted as a people. Mhmm. But I don't feel that. Mhmm. I don't feel I don't feel that. And, you know, when you look at hate crimes, there are still a ton of hate crimes against Jewish people in in the United States. Mhmm. A lot of which is not violent, granted. Right? And I think that makes a difference, but are still hate crimes nonetheless, and that signal a certain undercurrent among some people Mhmm. Who have anti-Semitic feelings. So I am trying to grapple with the way that I talked about Germany in particular and this intensely excruciating experience and how I dissociate facts in some ways from a historical narrative that a lot of Jews continue to tell, right, and feel and still say it could happen at any time and still exists, which is true. Right? How I can dissociate myself from that. And I'm trying to relate that, and you taught me a lot in relating that to the historical narrative of being black in America. And not just in America, as you said, being black in different societies. Right? Mhmm. And why do I feel a different narrative? And I don't know. I just have felt safe. I haven't felt a need to worry about, I don't know. I don't I genuinely do not know the answer to that question, other than I have not seen the images that you have probably seen that you have definitely seen not probably seen of being of what it's like to be what it could be like or is like to be black in America, even if it's different than your particular experience. I haven't seen those same images. The nature of antisemitism in America is different than the nature of, Black prejudice, discrimination, and hate, right? And so my world has been different and this question, I will say, gets brought up in in the conversation about being Black in America, too, which is and it's part of my question of what transitions the narrative. You know, you'll have people who say, you know, we don't live in Jim Crow South, right? And we certainly don't live in the times of slavery, right? And so where's the balance between seeing recognizing a trajectory of progress and seeing that there is a trajectory of progress at the same time as yeah. But there's still, like, deep problems, very real problems. Right? That's why I asked myself. I always orient things around the question of motivation. Right? So the physical context, it could have changed because you don't have Jim Crow laws anymore, for example. But if the motivation behind our behavior is to discriminate against black people, then that undercurrent of what was a previous context is still there and very prevalent. Yeah. That is, though, what I would say, and I think you're totally right. That that makes sense to me, that understanding motivation is important because if motivation is still there and context changes to allow that motivation to become more active. Right? Yes. That's the that's the, you know, do I think it could happen to me at some point? Yes. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I get that. Right? Yes. What I will say, though, and this is still what brings up the question in my mind, is people in the Jewish community will say the same thing, as you said about being black in America. There are people who have said to me, people I'm close to, Todd, you're so naive. Like, antisemitism still exists. It's still very prevalent. What they're telling me is exactly what you're telling me. Todd, the motivations are still there, and all it takes is a change of context. All it takes is some for something to come out, for, you know, for something to enable that to come out. And then you see the murder that happened in the synagogue in Pennsylvania. Right? Mhmm. So I don't I'm left with a I don't know. Right? I I'm left with a I don't know about my own feelings, and why I feel so different and why the narrative that clearly exists historically doesn't have as much as an of an impact on me that it doesn't with some other people in my community. But I deeply want to know why, because I believe there is enough people of goodwill, of good heart. Right? Even if they carry around bias. Right? And I will ignore, and I have I acknowledge that multiple times, right, during the course of our talk. Given the chance given the chance to connect, given the chance to have a different relationship, I think they would take it. And I will accept that as a basic assertion. I tend to be skeptical of people, but I will accept that. Yeah. Then most people are motivated by goodness. Thank you for watching this episode of Healing Race and stay with us for a scene from our next video. If you wanna see more conversations like the one you just watched, please subscribe to our channel, share this video with friends and family, and like and comment on the video below. If you'd like to be a guest on one of our episodes and have an open real conversation about race, email us at guests at healingrayshow.com. And if there are topics you think we should cover, we'd love to hear them. So please email your ideas to topics at healingrayshow.com. As always, thanks for your support. We look forward to continuing the conversation with you. Now, here's a scene from our next Healing Race. I think I think it can be more singular than that. As you were talking, I started to think about George Zimmerman when he killed Trayvon Martin. So what does it take for one of those people who would just have, you know, attachment to advantage, biases to all of a sudden, I mean, dude, I live in a free carry state. We all have guns here where I live. I don't. But so anything can trigger and then all of a sudden, bodily harm has been done to some person to a person. You live in the United States of America, and we come strapped here. Right? It's just like we come strapped here. To watch the rest of that episode, go ahead and click the video below me. To see a different compelling healing race episode, you can click the video below me. We look forward to seeing you in the next video.