Does the Black Lives Matter Movement Run Against the Goal of Supporting “All Lives?”

Thank you for tuning into Healing Race. In this video, Andre and I continue discussing white lives matter. Does the Black Lives Matter movement create an environment that has white people feeling like their lives or perhaps their views don't matter? In focusing on black lives, does Black Lives Matter run counter to the goal that everyone has a right to a thriving life, or is it a necessary step to that goal? And how would people's views to these questions change if they spend more time in each other's shoes? Todd and I talk about racial experiences, racial trust of which I don't have much, and more. Let's get to that conversation. Enjoy. Yeah. I mean, I And just to give more clarity on what I'm saying. Yeah. It is based on the evolution of racial history in this country. We need to be mindful, and you mentioned the voting rights act. We need to be mindful and watch out for structural issues that have racial bias being so insidious that they really deny entire large groups of people opportunity. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just saying that hasn't gone away. Yeah. Yeah. And so. You hear people's response. There was again, the two responses that I suggested someone might come back to you with are, 1, we got to focus on categories that are about our shared experience of, let's say, socioeconomic disadvantage. And I'm saying people don't want a shared experience with me. And then and then 2 is and 2 is that focusing on identity provokes feelings. Right. And you're saying people don't want to have that shared identity necessarily. And I guess one response to that might be, might take us back to a previous conversation that you had, which is I could imagine someone saying to you about that, I agree with you. Like I agree with you that there are people who don't wanna share an identity. What my approach would be is to marginalize them. I think they are a smallish segment of the group. The people who would actually resist being in a shared identity are this kind of smaller, whatever that means. They are people who you're right, we're never gonna reach. But then what they would say, I'm guessing, is there are a segment of the, let's say white population who are not, who wouldn't resist that shared identity and for whom a focus on race might be counterproductive, whereas a focus on shared experience might be more productive. And yeah. Go ahead. I would say that shared experience is hard because our experiences are so vastly different to yeah. Let don't curse. Y'all really don't know what it's like to be black. And if you if you did, if you did the whole not a day in my shoes, you live a year in my shoes, like, goddamn. Like, we're like, wow. Woah. Woah. You know? And it’s hard to have the shared experience when one group of people's experience can be so much more beneficial or so much more yields, so much more than that of the other group of people. When they're when they're when you are so far apart, you're almost diametrically opposed, it's hard to come together like magnets. So what would you say then? So what would you say then? Because you wanted to enter into this you thought this was a good story to talk about. Mhmm. Not just because it's topical and, you know, kinda gets to the heart of some racial issues in this moment, But the specific story was about black people who are saying white lives matter. And so they presumably have had some taste, right, of the black experience that you are that you are saying a white person wouldn't know. Yes. So my question to you is they have a sense of that experience. And but yet at the same time, they think that either they think that there can be understanding, or they think those differences in the experience are not shouldn't be what we focus on. But I guess I'm just wondering generally, like, how would you what you do what you think might be going through their minds that's different from you who thinks there's this this gap in experience that that makes shared identity hard, which I don't I think it's pretty reasonable to say that different experiences make shared identity. Can't make it hard. Right? That it can make understanding hard. But yet again, they've had elements of that experience. So what I you know, how do you how do you think about that? I think experience and memory can be selective. Okay. I think you can be a person let's take my own life because I'm I live far from where I started. And I gave you a glimpse of that when we first started this project. I I'm far from where I started. I'm by no means wealthy, but both me and my mother have become class migrants in our lifetime. I remember telling her that too. I say, you forgot where you from because, mama, we went to a grocery store in the city where we live. And my mother, who doesn't live only around white people, but she lives around more of them now than when she did when she was younger. And she was criticizing this particular grocery store, which was in an urban area, I'm trying to be PC, in an urban area. And she and she was criticizing just the operation of the store. And I said, you've been out there in that neighborhood, but you live too long. You know? And then, like, things are differently on this side of town. And I say that to say that, you know, because what I learned in that moment is that I am someone who integrates all of the experience. So starting out, how I started out life, socioeconomically, even spiritually, and where I am now, to me, it's all one continuum. Others may look at their life and select the memories and then have feelings about the selections. They obviously have feelings about the selection they've made. And what I feel about black people, you know, saying white lives matter, and maybe some of these people have had it. They've had taste of both experiences. They've had a taste of the black experience that white people would know, and they've had a taste of what the white experience, you know, is with respect to privilege. Right? And maybe sometimes we select the experiences that put us in the place where we are now. What I would what I would counsel them, just my counsel is worth anything, is that number 1, we all ain't you. So for every, you know, success story or whatever, maybe there are people who did not have a chance to taste that privilege of, you know, what it looks like to have a supported life of what I'm claiming, you know, colloquially is the white experience. And it's important that we bring those people along too, those who have not had that taste. So when you focus on, quote, unquote, shared experience, my feedback is, number 1, some white people just flat out don't want a shared experience with me because of what it conveys about them. And then number 2, others' experiences could be so different from yours. They're like night and day. I've even seen this in my own family. I was once, you know, I my we're all grown men, and as grown men, I went on an outing with some, siblings of mine. And this one sibling said, you take me to places in the city that I never knew existed. And that just showed me that even in the same, you know, place where we live, we have 2 very, very different visions of reality and what that and what that is. And I'm taking all of that and informing my life and making life choices and who I can be in this world and what is possible and what is what is my right to have as a being on this planet living in this place. And others are using taking in different data. They're doing the same analysis, but taking a very, very different data. So when we focus on shared experience, it's fine. And like I said all that universal language sounds really good in theory and spiritually and in church, and I finished, you know, with church right before starting this. However, in my experience in my near 50 years on this planet, sometimes human beings are don't reach their highest ideal of themselves, and then what happens? So we can't just say, well, we're not perfect, so some people are gonna fall through. You can't do that when you're a society that needs to bring everyone along just for the sake of having a stable society. Yeah. I mean, tell me if I'm if I'm trying to so I'm listening to what you're sharing, and I'm also remembering kind of, again, the, you know, the whole trajectory of our conversation. And I'm trying to kinda piece it all together or, you know, what are the themes or what are the key points? And it feels to me like the basic crux of your Preparation? Yeah. Your hesitancy to I'm having to kind of attack issues not in a racial lens. Right. Not through a racial lens, but through the problem itself. Right. Not that problem's relationship to race, but just the issue itself. Your hesitancy about that seems to let me know if I'm right in this to boil down, most importantly, to a part of our conversation where you said what you think about is not whether someone knows the issues, let's say, experienced in the black community, but whether someone knows what's going on and says, who cares? So what? Yes. That feels to me like the heart of what you're concerned about is the. So what? So now we share experiences, but for black people, so what? And the reason I say that is because, you know, we could even get beyond socioeconomic issues. You know, there's one black You're right about that. That's black influencer. Go ahead. So what you just said is that at my heart, the so what? Yeah. Because that hurts. Yeah. That almost makes me wanna cry now. So what? Can you imagine someone telling you, someone like, hey. I need help. And they're like and they look at you, Todd, and like, so what? Yeah. That's awful. Yeah. And I and I think, yeah, I can feel that too. I think that remark can maybe get a little bit to what maybe some of the motivations of people who, you know, might say white lives matter or all lives matter in this way. So there's a kind of black thought leader who, you know, tends to who is has his mantle be, you know, get rid of identity politics, essentially. You know, his thing is, like, we shouldn't think through the identity lens. And he will bring up I've heard him brought bring up multiple times. He's gone away from, like he talks about the socioeconomic stuff, but he also talks about the police violence. And he will bring up numerous examples of white people who were killed at the hands of cops in sometimes similar ways. So there's even, like, a George Floyd type example of a white I think it's a white person being killed in in a very similar way. And his point is kind of along the lines of what we've been talking about. There are these shared experiences, but we see the black components of it. Right? Because of Black Lives Matter Movement and whatnot. And there's all these other names we don't know who are also unfairly killed. And it creates, in his mind, I think he would probably say a perception of an inequality when really there's a shared experience. And what someone might say, and I know this won't jive with your experience throughout your life about I mean, look, it would be it would I just don't know how someone can say, you know, can look at the media and not say there is a bias in representation, for instance, right, between white and black people, how much they're represented, the way they're represented, right? There's this whole history of biases that you've experienced in your life and your community has as well. In this moment, what I think some people are pushing back against, and then I'll say what I think they're not recognizing is that white person who was killed at the hand of cops, you know, in a somewhat similar way to George Floyd, what they might say is we're saying so what to that person, but we're saying it in reverse. We're saying so what because you're white. Right? We need to highlight violence, police violence against citizens as it relates to black people. And now we're going in the reverse and giving the impression that this other community of people who also experienced some of those same issues, we're saying so what to their experience. And so therefore, we need to say white lives matter too. Right? I think that might be a little of it. Now I buy the argument, and I also am conflicted about it because I take your point that, you know, as a community, you need to if you felt so much of the so what come your way. So then why are why is it 80 percent why is it 80% of the goddamn prison system white men then? Yeah. Yeah. But buy. Uh-uh. Buy with that. Buy. Buy. Buy. I do understand the argument you've just presented that someone could feel you know, I'm just I didn't collect myself. That someone could feel that you're saying so what to my experience. But when we look at the outcomes of people who are who mostly wind up in the criminal justice system of which I am 1 because I have a DUI. Yeah. And I'm not saying I should have that that was not that had nothing to do with race. That was just me and an irresponsible evening. But what I'm but it has engendered a special interest in all of this for me. Sure. Who are the people who are mostly arrested, charged with the harshest, who charged with the harshest charges? Because you have to remember the district attorney decides what charges to bring against people in the name of the people. That's how we work in the United States with district attorneys. And who end up with the harshest sentences, it tends to be people of color. So, yes, that that, you know, similar George Floyd incident, similar to, like, a George Floyd happened with a white man, and that is outrageously unfortunate that that that gentleman's life ended, and it ended that the way that it did. And I don't wanna take anything away from his suffering or that of his family. Yeah. What I'm also saying to as a retort is then let's fix things all the way around and make sure we include black people too. The reason the highlight is so focused on black people is because we make up the largest percentage of the prison population. So it's the big I mean, it's gonna when you're the largest group of a negative may perceive thing, then people are gonna tend to focus on that on that. Right? And so no one wants to take away for what could have possibly been a wrongful death in this man's situ in that white man's situation and the suffering of his family. So let's fix it all the way around and may no one's trying to leave you out. But it's focused on black people because they're the largest share of the prison population of the who's or in the criminal justice system. So let's fix it all the way around and make sure we include everyone. Yeah. What's so wrong with that? What's so wrong in sitting in the truth of that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I mean; I think it's a fair a fair response on you on your side. I mean, it would seem to be, again, going back to inequality of outcomes and to try to think through. And I've heard, you know, even this influencer that I that I mentioned, you know, I've heard him talk about economic inequalities. And, you know, in his point of view, it'll the issues are so complex. We don't know what leads to it. Right? And the issues are complex. Don't get me wrong. Like, lots of factors that play into it. But to not think that there's some component based on racial history, it just, we're always acting with incomplete information, right? We're not gonna know all the various causes and how they've intertwined to create economic disparities between black people and white people at large. Right? But I think a pretty plausible story is that at least some strong portion of those inequalities have a basis in a in a very tumultuous, horrible history with race in our country. Like, it's it seems to me a little hand waving to say, well, there are just so many factors and we don't know them. And I agree with that, especially since the framework for integrating black people into American society was a period called reconstruction. Mhmm. So that's when these sort of, like, institutions set up or began to take root in how we take what was once a slave, an enslaved person. And that's important to know, an enslaved person is that person Yeah. And integrate them into a society that quite frankly would not have them here Mhmm. Unless they were here under the context that they used to be under. Yeah. And that we've been fighting that tension. I mean, because I once, heard a British commentator recently say the US civil war never finished. I'm like, it didn't. We're still Reconstruction was stopped. It, who was it? Was it Andrew Johnson? No. Am I right in that? Did Andrew Johnson come after Lincoln? Andrew Jackson. Andrew Jackson is the president of the confederate. Not Jackson. Johnson. I think, anyways, the person who came after Lincoln Mhmm. After he was assassinated, as far as I know, kind of obstructed the reconstruction process. So and then there's the whole issue of reparations at that time. I know we've had a conversation about reparations in the here and now. We're not looking at the modern setting. You know, and all of that. But certainly it seems, you know, whether you disagree with reparations at this point or what or you disagree about what it would look like if you if you do are a supporter of it, reparations at that time seems a pretty reasonable thing. Right? Yes. You know, you need resources. Right? You know, especially during that time, there's so much that's kind of just about the physicality. You know, just having resources, land, and yes. Things to work that land. Right? And so, it seems to me that some kind of rep reparations to them. At that point in time was important, and we know that that wasn't fulfilled. Right? So, anyways, all of this being said, I just really find it hard. I just really find it hard to, I have a lot of appreciation for some of the some of the thoughts being put forth by people who get concerned about identity politics and bringing race into things in a particular way. I can respect and appreciate some of what they you know, another thing they'll say is, like, change takes time. Equality takes time. Right. There has been progress in the black community. Maybe it's a matter of giving it time to work its way out and letting the members of the black community rise through a different system that exists now than did 50 years ago, 100 years ago. So, you know, I can have some appreciation of some of the arguments, but the waving away, the idea that's that that inequality might be baked into now might be baked in based on kind of our history. I just find it really hard to. I've never been I've never been shown evidence that would show that that isn't that that that they can make that claim confidently. You know, so. That's the piece that for me, I think always has me aligned very strongly with a lot of what you have to say in terms of the need to focus on race and the need to kind of raise voices that aren't being heard is outcomes speak for themselves. And so they must come from somewhere. And so we need to speak to those to those to those outcomes. That that's something that I buy pretty strongly. Unless you unless there's a radical shift. So I I'm willing to get on board with focusing on a more universal approach when society shows me there's a radical shift in perception. But as long as there's an undercurrent of, you know, beliefs of racial bias and of separation, then, you know, you you're asking me to step out on blind faith that that to just think that, okay, your group is your group is gonna be okay no matter who is, you know, elected, who's in power, etcetera, just because you can trust us. And, like, in what person would ever do that? You know? Like, especially when some over 400 years of evidence to the contrary. Like, I mean, you know, this will be made public. People will say what they will. They talk about Jesus or whatever. But you know and I'm like I like, I've had with a with a friend that said, in the 400 years that we've been dating white people, because I remember, I like to use that analogy of an abusive relationship. In the 400 years that we've been dating white people, what have they ever learned our trust? Why should we trust our boyfriend to not cheat on us? Boy, please. In the 400 years, well, it's because round and round and round and round. Yeah. It's interesting you brought up trust because I've been thinking a lot about that during this conversation. And it basically comes it comes down to that. And so what you're basically saying is because of the so what response, because you feel like there's a good portion of, let's say, the white community that would have a so what response to the challenges in the black community, even if shared with portions of the white community. You don't trust that the intentions or that the, at least that the, that someone would kind of correct their biases to care no matter if it was black, white or whatever shade in between. Right. And so then the question that I think comes after that, which I think makes sense, and your point is you have to earn that trust, right? No one just looks at a certain history and looks at a certain set of outcomes and go, okay, cool. That have affected them and said, okay, I trust you, right? No, that's I think that I think that's a powerful way of framing it, actually. I think that the so what and then linking it to the lack of trust and how we handle manage trust in our own lives, I think I think is a powerful way of framing it. And I think it makes sense very on a very human level. I guess the question that would arise then is what does it look like? You say when perceptions change, what does it look like to earn trust? Right. And why? The second question I would ask is why you think there are members of the black community who wanna say all lives matter or white lives matter. Clearly, there is a trust a greater trust that they have. So now keep in mind, but my final thought about white lives and all lives is that, yeah, they do, but we're not there yet. So I don't know think they're different in thinking that? Why do you think they have a greater trust? Why do you think the trust has been earned where they don’t, they don't worry about the so what? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I have an answer to that question. And I'm told it would lead you to get to that point where you have a greater trust that you could you think we're closer to that point of Mhmm. Universal approaches would actually work and not be biased. That's a wonderful question, and I'm so happy to answer it. Because trust is and relationships are emotional. And when it comes to emotions, we all evolve at what are they're literally like a thumbprint, and we all evolve in our own way and at our own pace. So those people, it could be possible that they're on an they're in an emotional space where they're comfortable saying white lives matter given, I mean, given these are educated people. They know our history in this country and etcetera. But they're in an emotional space where they're comfortable saying that. And I am in an emotional space where I'm not quite comfortable, meaning, I haven't seen enough yet. Now, secondly, to your question, what does enough look like? For me, when I start to see that the large swaths of our needs and our desire to want to pursue the American dream is supported, that's when I start saying, okay. You know what? Because remember, I like I said, I've been skeptical of white people who were really good to me, and I mean really good to me. Like, I've because I was, I'm thinking about all of the white relationships that I've benefited from that have been wonderful supports in my life. And, you know, it feels strange to and vulnerable to, you know, outset. So once they showed me that I had no reason to be skeptical, that dissipated very quickly. But at the outset, you know, it felt strange, but you I mean, that's just a part of my personal emotional makeup. So what I would say, for me, that's what it looks like. It looks like broad support and meaningful gains in the outcomes. And that's where we get closer to the gift to being there. Right? Like, when I said, like, I respect what they're saying, but we're not there yet. Mhmm. And the part of the being there is saying, well, we're not forgetting about black people too. All the ones who haven't had, you know, a taste of what of truly supported life can look like. Some those people need to be included in the dream as well. Yeah. So it's changing the so what to, you know, the kind of I care. The there is a so what. And yeah. The I care. Because the I care is what would show me it's time to move on. Like, it's that white people are meaningfully saying we need to move on from all of that. Move from all of that. And maybe that's what they're trying to say with the universal approach. Right? And maybe just the framing and the language doesn't quite have me convinced. I will accept that. I'll accept that. Yeah. And it could be said in reverse too that they don't really grasp the meaning of the black of Black Lives Matter and what it could or should or maybe, you know, intends to mean. Right? Because Black Lives Matter is literally a response to the so what problem. Right? It is. It's saying they must say You say so what about our lives? We wanna say our lives matter. Just show us that our lives matter. Right? The organization started I mean; I'll be I'll be very honest. I felt a sense of pride that someone was looking out for me. Mhmm. And I know I sit in a comfortable home, in a comfortable environment or whatever, but, you know, I'm still black in this country, and who knows when some sort of trouble may, you know, befall me just because of my race. And it's nice to know that there's an organization, even if they can't do anything, they're at least gonna get in front of the media and sound off about it and make sure that people know. Mhmm. You know, in many, many ways, African American people, black people have been some of the most vulnerable people in this country. I mean, look at the vol the volume of children in foster care, largely black. The volume of children who are, you know, who are not at their grade reading level, mostly black. I mean, I could go on and on and on. Mhmm. Black women making 65¢ on the dollar to a white man. I mean, I can do. I mean, this stuff is studied and it's qualified. Yeah. In terms of outcomes. Yeah. So what earns trust is the so what. And you've even brought that to our conversation. Right? When I asked you why you started opening up to me, it was respecting curiosity. I think it was intention. Right? And you told when your parents asked you that or your family asked you that, you, that was your answer. Right? Is when you My first inclination that you were gonna use this in some exploitative manner. Right? Because my yeah. My friend and I in our 7 hour conversation, we talked about that too, that sometimes when you have these quote, unquote curiosity conversations with white people, they're really looking for you as a black person to agree with their perspective so they can run out into the world and say, see and then whatever claim they make and then say, Andre agrees with me. And I've been really guarded against that. So trust me, I'm like I said, I may have a period cool in all of this, but I was listening to and meditated for, like, weeks on every word that ever came out of your mouth Yeah. Yeah. In ways you could use it against me or to exploit me or to mischaracterize me. Yeah. Yeah. No. I definitely got that sense in in little pieces. And that's why I The editing. That's why I wanted legal Even in terms of the editing, not just the business stuff, the editing. Right? You had to see that I was showing you in your best showing the fullness of who we were. Right. You know, because I had more time to kind of delve into it. And so I was, you know, cutting options and showing you. And, and I remember there being skepticism about how it was gonna be cut. What are the edits look like? Do they resemble the conversation in its fullest way on both of our sides? So I, yeah, I mean, I'm aware too. No, no, I didn't trust you one day. I mean, I've known you for 20. But I had to earn your trust. I mean, fair enough. You know, I had to earn your trust. I had to show you. You had to see that that, you know, I was gonna show the gist in both sides of each part of our of our conversation. No. I think I think that it feels to me you asked me once, what's the responsibility of white people? And I have a different answer now than I did then or an additional answer that just came to me right now. When in relationships in my mind, the thing I thought about a lot, relationships generally, is there are always moments of possible greater closeness that involve vulnerability, and vulnerability requires trust. And there's always this moment where you're like both sides standing on the side of a pool. Mhmm. And you're either gonna go and swim together and have a great experience or you're not. And each person is waiting like you gonna jump in 1st? Because I'm waiting for you to jump in 1st. Right? And, and then when someone jumps in, it's like, okay. Well, he's making himself vulnerable or she's making herself vulnerable. Okay. Then it's That's a technology. Then we're good. Right? And, you know, the world we'd love in an ideal world that we just, like, jump in together at the same time. Right? It's just, like, let's jump in. Right? I do think, and I can't make this a complete universal statement because there are different white people and there are different black people. Like, you know, we're not monoliths. No. But on the average, On the average, I do understand the desire among many in the black community to see the first step of vulnerability be from the white side. Because you said something about changing minds, right? That you thought that it would be that, you know, the concern was about it being exploited or generally that white people want to have these curiosity conversations to convince them. The truth is, is that if I look at the arc of our conversation, we've built the understanding of each other. Like, there are times when I have said, you know, just now in this conversation, like trust and the so what the I care like that, I totally get that. You look at the history and you have to earn trust. And what does the history say? What do the current outcomes say? That perspective has been very informative to me in terms of the basic feelings that drive some, you know, concerns from a portion of the black community, a large portion of the black community. There have been things on the reverse. We talked about the label of being racist, for example. Or I was just thinking about that. Not thinking so much about people, not assuming people's intentions are always about race, but maybe it's maybe it's ideological. I think there are things we've learned from one another. That was huge that was huge moment for me to not casually throw that word around and to consider what it may feel like, as what a white person may feel hearing that said about themselves. Yeah. And I think but it requires 2 people being open. And my guess is, and I think you would think this is fair to say, you were probably more hesitant about the mind changing, in the beginning, right, because of this fear of being exploited and whatnot. And I can understand that asymmetry racially. And I can understand, so if I were to add something to my answer about the white responsibility, on average, not everybody, White people are different. Black people are different. But on average, it's the step of vulnerability. It's just to for me to be able to say, you changed my mind on that. You changed my perspective. I could even walk out with the same preference for a policy or whatever it might be, but say, I get it. Right? Mhmm. Like, I totally get it. And for kinda me to be willing to go that route first, to jump into that pool first, to show that it's a that that I'm trustworthy in that way. I do think in many black, white situations, there is that greater responsibility on the part of whites. There is that responsibility to take the first step, on in that vulnerability. And I didn't really maybe I felt it intuitively a little bit, but I didn't have a way to articulate. But I think I think I even understand it a whole lot better. And in this conversation in particular, it makes a lot of sense to me. I'm glad. It was definitely a prerequisite to having a full conversation. I love your analogy about water. Right? Jumping in the pool. Because what we're talking about are deep things. These are you're talking about the human heart and emotion and people's shifting hearts. Right? Those are deep, profound topics. And sometimes, you know, you're scared of deep water, so you stayed in the shallow end. And you could've we've ever could've because, honestly, I didn't feel anything was lacking in our friendship with respect to even having this conversation. So I was slightly surprised that you wanted to have it, but we could have stayed we could have remained in the shallow end of the pool, of the metaphorical pool, and, you know, we would have been friends for the rest of our lives. Now I must say I feel, especially since you and I made will become business partners from this, which is Yeah. A whole set of trust and vulnerability. But, yes, I have definitely thanked you thank you for getting that. Thank you for Yeah. Thank you for considering me. And maybe that in the end, that's kind of what I'm advocating for. Is that, you know, not no policy is gonna be perfect, and there inevitably will have been some people who are not the beneficiaries of it. And I get that. We do the best we can with what we know and the resources we got in that point in time. However, just we as black people are worthy of your positive consideration. You know? Consider us. Don't just, like, flat out no or flat out they're not worthy or flat out this is a white only country. I mean, for, you know, for heaven's sake, tomorrow is Columbus slash Indigenous Peoples Day. You know? And I was like, all of us are sitting on land. It is not our ancestral home. All and the people who are of the lineage that this is their ancestral home, I asked myself that I was walking to my kitchen this morning. I was like because I looked at the calendar just to see what my week was shaping up to be. And I was like, I wonder what they must feel looking at all of us walking around on deep ancestral land where traditions have, you know, been handed down from generation to generation, walking around like we own this place. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that could be hurtful to them. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. I think that I yeah. I feel like that's something that can resonate a lot. I mean, everyone's got their culture. Right? Mhmm. Not everyone. I mean, some people don't feel a lot. But, you know, there's religious cultures obviously very strongly in the United States. And to feel the sense of pride that they have. I mean, I know in the Jewish community, there's a whole lot of pride, you know, that comes especially from the experiences of persecution, to be honest, and that right? The holocaust and before, you know, you know, Egypt, you know, all the way back to Egypt and, yeah, probably by probably before that. And black people struggle with that too. That one of the major dimensions in which we're all bonded is through persecution. We struggle with that because we don't wanna be because then then you that's when you're like, you're known as victim, victims, victims. And no one's trying to be known as that, but it is in and then part of your identity. What I've learned, like I said, I'm under 50 years on this planet. You're not 50 yet, buddy. I know. I keep aging. People say, why do you age yourself? I'm proud of every year. But, you know, is, like, you have to embrace those parts of yourself, even the ones that are less comfortable or don't have the cleanest story. Thank you for watching this episode of Healing Race and stay with us for a scene from our next video. If you wanna see more conversations like the one you just watched, please subscribe to our channel, share this video with friends and family, and like and comment on the video below. If you'd like to be a guest on one of our episodes and have an open real conversation about race, email us at guests at healingrayshow.com. And if there are topics you think we should cover, we'd love to hear them. So please email your ideas to topics at healingrayshow.com. As always, thanks for your support. We look forward to continuing the conversation with you. Now, here's a scene from our next healing race. When were you, and maybe we've touched on it, when were you first aware of systemic bias against black people in this country? To watch the rest of that episode, go ahead and click the video below me. To see a different compelling healing race episode, you can click the video below me. We look forward to seeing you in the next video.