Is Black Skepticism of White Motivations Justified in Today’s America?

Black people have our deaths have been very public Yeah. In this country, like, with lynching when the people had lynching parties. Right? So it was a spectacle. You came, you bought, you know, you know, alcoholic beverages to watch this black man be hung and strung from a tree or whatever torture, you know, however you wanted to, you know, assault his dignity and murder the person ultimately. Right? And even with George Floyd, that was a very graphic. Like I said, it's a snuff film. Like, that was very graphic scene. And so those images when you're a part of that group for me are seared into your mind. No. You know? That's seared into your mind. And, I mean, it's just something that's unforgettable. To answer this question specifically about me, like, when did I intuit and internalize that I need to watch over my physical safety? It's knowing the collective experiences of everyone else, whether in the past or in the present, even if it's just one incident in a year and knowing that could be me. Right? And there's a very deep appreciation, I'm a field in the black community of, you know, that could be you. I mean, there's a saying there before the grace of God go I, which is what I live my life by. You know, like, you know, like, that could be you. The insinuation behind that bible verse is it could be you, you know, who's experiencing the opposite end of the goodness of life even though life is good all the time. Right? You know, the bad vicissitudes of life. And so for me, I just always I developed a framework of, k, be on guard and preserve yourself, your physical self as much as you can. You know? So always be mindful of your environment, always be mindful of people's energy when that energy shifts, and, like I said, learn how to manage it. Now have I been in situations like that in my life? No. But do I feel they could happen at any moment? Yep. I think that gave me a sense of the skepticism. Right? Because if you feel there's some portion of white people, some sub substantive, sub substantial portion of white people, and you even said it your I mean, you said it yourself in the last conversation. You said you said, you know, there's probably many cases in which my skepticism is not warranted. Mhmm. Like, that I'm that you and that skepticism might limit your ability to, you know, have enriching experiences with the white people who come across your world that are trustworthy and are well intentioned and don't see you as anything less than who they are. And so I was trying to figure that, like, okay, you have this skepticism and you but at the same time, you acknowledge that I mean, I can't remember what words you used, but there was some sense of, like, there's a good portion of white people I could trust, like, I could have enriching experiences with. Yes. So you know that kind of consciously. Mhmm. But I think that's what hit me so hard besides just, again, feeling that sadness for my dear friend and for and for the fact that a lot of, you know, that a good portion of the black community, as you say, probably feel this same way, that you had to feel this sense of worry about your physical safety. And I can understand, therefore, because you don't know whether that white person who you come across is, like, which side of the ledger they're going to be, right? You're going to have that skepticism as a self-protective mechanism because you don't want to be harmed in these in these ways that really hurt, physically and or otherwise. And so therefore, yes, you're gonna have skepticism until you know that's and not aligning with your grandfather's holocaust experience. Yeah. But thank you for sharing that because it's a similar motivation. So the way he didn't want non-Jewish people in his home because maybe he was skeptical based upon his direct experience in the holocaust. I don't have any direct experience with police brutality or anything like that, but I do have the collective experiences of my people. And so that I'm not saying, yes, there's an undercurrent of skepticism when I'm when I start or have white relationships. Yeah. Because that comes from a very real place because there's been a sense of duplicitousness about our acceptance. I mean, like I said, look at American history. So white people in the north were, you know, on this on this side of abolitionists. Then when black people started migrating north and wanting jobs after they were free, wanting jobs and agency, then, like, wait a minute. Why are y'all moving here? Like, this is American. This has been documented. Like and the black people, like, wait a minute, but you were you know, you wanted to abolish slavery. But that didn't mean moved to my neighborhood. It's like, oh my god. So yeah. So I think that this this is really helpful because a lot of my questions about the physical safety part, right, come from I see more in my reality. Again, my reality is not your reality that you've experienced, and you know more about the black experience than I do because I'm not black, yeah, among other things. And so the reason I keyed into this physical safety is I even in the people, the white people I've come across, I understand the greater pervasiveness of, yeah, you know, black people should have equal rights in theory. But when it's in my or, you know, when it's in my arena or if it's going to affect moving your net. No. But say it's not. Say it. When that comes to me moving to your neighborhood Right. Yeah. Yeah. No. Exactly. And or and or even let's have check. Even if it's a policy that will help to do that, and it's not about my neighborhood per se, but if it's going to affect me in some kind of material way. Mhmm. So I get the greater pervasiveness of that, but those people still Mhmm. My knowledge of them, they would not be physically harmful. Does that make sense? So my big question about the physical harm portion is I see a greater percentage of people who would not do you physical harm, but who do carry these, you know, an attachment to advantage, a set of stereotypes about black people and therefore a guardedness about sharing space. They carry all these other things, and I do recognize that sometimes, for some people, for even some portion of those people, when they start to see that encroachment, there are some people who can be, you know, recruited into movements that start to lean in that I think it can be direction. I can make I think it can be more singular than that. As you were talking, I started to think about George Zimmerman when he killed Trayvon Martin. So what does it take for one of those people who would just have, you know, attachment to advantage, biases to all of a sudden, I mean, dude, we I live in a free carry state. We all have guns here where I live. I don't. But so anything can trigger and then all of a sudden, bodily harm has been done to some person to a person. You live in the United States of America, and we come strapped here. Right? It's just like we come strapped here. So, yeah, I don't know George Zimmerman, so I can't compare him to the kinds of people that I'm talking about. I don't think the people that I'm talking about would ever be a George Zimmerman. That's not What I'm saying is that because, but my own personal belief is that anybody is capable of anything, and that's what's undergirding my comment that you just need the appropriate trigger, and you could/should do something you never thought you'd ever do, including do bodily harm to another human being. To I would say to yes. I mean, I think to the extreme, that is the case. Right? I mean, if you go to, again, the holocaust and people who were put in situations Mhmm. Where you kill this Jew or you're gonna die. But that's a very extreme situation where, yeah, they would probably pull the trigger. Like, a lot of people would probably pull the trigger out of self-preservation. Mhmm. But even in a lot of others context that are more prevalent in the United States, I a lot of the people I'm not saying all the people that I have come across in my world, but a lot of the people a lot of the people I know best, they would never really feasibly be moved to that point of being willing to physically harm. It's complicated. But I don't expect you to trust that or believe it off, you know Thank you because I'm not. Yeah. Yeah. I don't expect you to someone being killed. What I would suggest is that if you knew the people the way I did, you would have the same opinion. Okay? Mean they show me the same person that they showed you. Yeah? Correct. Right. And so there's some degree in which we just don't know each other, and I can have a I have, I think, a much deeper, more real understanding of why you carry skepticism around with you because of this fear and because there's just no way to know who's who. Yeah. What I'm just trying to tell you is there's probably a lot of people who you would be skeptical of, who would who you would be right in being skeptical again of their willingness to be completely open with whoever comes into their neighborhood. Right? They probably will your skepticism is probably right for some of these people about their willingness to give up some sense of advantage to have a greater sense of equity. Okay? You're right about those. You would be right in your intuitions about those things. I think you would feel differently if you knew them about the physical harm part. That's it. I think there is a greater portion of people who are sickened by that physical harm, who wouldn't go it would take a really extreme situation to ever get them there. And that's where that's where I that's where I'm trying, I have been trying to understand what your reality has lead you to have that skepticism, and I get it. Like, I feel like I'm never gonna fully get it. Right? I didn't live in your body in your shoes. Right? But I get it a lot more clearly and deeply than I did prior to our conversations, and I think other people should/would get it. Like, if you I appreciate that. No. I think they would. I think if they heard it and they really understood it that way, like, if people understood the skepticisms that they have of people for whatever their self-protective, you know, motivations are, and how until you really know who's who in that way, we all carry, I think, some level of mistrust or skepticism in in places where we feel we're threatened. And, and we're threatened in small and big ways. And so even if we just recognize that our realities have been different, if I can recognize that what I just assumed to be the case about a lot of the white people who I know, you can't assume to be the case, you haven't you that isn't the context you grew up in. Right? Not just historically, but your life context. So I just I think understanding that and understanding that your reality, both historically and in the present you know, in your life past and in your presence, that it makes sense to have skepticism and that I understand a sense of skepticism and that that means while you might not walk around thinking intentionally, let's say, that everyone is racist, I don't we haven't had that conversation yet, but you have to assume there is something there to protect yourself. Is that I accept I won't say I assume. I'm skeptical. You're skeptical. I don't so I do not personally walk around You're agnostic about it. You just you just don't know one way or another, and you're gonna be hesitant until proven otherwise. There you go. That's a great way to put it. I'm hesitant until proven otherwise. So I don't walk around thinking that all white people are racist or whatever. Right. But I'm just I'm just hesitant because I just know the history of this country and yeah. All the things I've said before. You know? And also, I think that black people have our deaths have been very public in this country, like with lynching when the people had lynching parties. Right? So it was a spectacle. You came, you bought, you know, you know, alcoholic beverages to watch this black man be hung and strung from a tree or whatever torture and, you know, however you wanted to, you know, assault his dignity and murder the person ultimately. Right? And even with George Floyd, that was a very graphic. Like I said, it's look at a snuff film. Like, that was very graphic scene. And so those images when you're a part of that group for me are seared into your mind. No. You know? That's seared into your mind. And, I mean, it's just something that's unforgettable. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry, buddy. What are you sorry for? I'm sorry that you I apologize. That you feel I'm sorry that you have felt and do feel that way. A fear for your physical safety among other things. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I appreciate your desire to want to apologize. Sort of like when the one gonna apologize to you for everything that happened to the Jews with you in Germany, I appreciate that, and I accept it. You know? But for me personally, and I'm speaking for me personally now in this moment, it's just a part of being black. So I just I mean, I just kinda learn to live with it. I think this is a good point to go into the kind of pop, you know, you know, cancel culture, politically, you know, PC culture, or, you know, you might have some other direction you wanna take it that's on your mind. No. I wouldn't have any more thought. I just I just like, something I once recently told another person that just I just think that it's important to hold other people's, experiences in love. Right? And what I mean by that is just because something may not be real for you, don't doesn't mean it's not real for another person. You even see this in families. Right? Even among siblings where one sibling would say, our childhood was perfect, and then another sibling will say, well, mom and dad were horrible. And you're like, wait a minute. What are you talking about? And, you know, we all and I've used this sibling thing because that's a very tangible experience to people that their experience of their parents. Right? And so I think it my parting thought is to hold that in love, and I think that is a great segue into cancel culture. Yeah. Because when people say things that challenge our worldview, and this has been shown in studies in universities, we have a tendency as human beings not to want to integrate that information. And so we want to cancel them, meaning I'm right, you're wrong, shut up. Right? So take away their voice or whatever. And I'm not saying that in all contexts, canceling them is the right thing or the wrong thing to do. But I think at the very least, one should use it as an opportunity to critically think and examine how this new information challenges could be integrated or substantiates their worldview. Now I understand people do that with bias. Right? Because we all have our own framework for thinking. But when you are going through the process of critical thinking, you can sometimes get out of that bias and then begin to examine information objectively. Sort of like what we just did now when I say, yes, I have a real fear for my physical safety walking around in this country. And that challenged your worldview because I noticed you really latched on to that physical safety part because it's just so antithetical, maybe. And maybe I'm just putting words in your mouth now, but maybe that was antithetical to what you knew to be true. But you still were willing to examine the piece of information. And said you just didn't cancel me. You didn't say, Andre, that's you're crazy. You know? No one's gonna come gonna do anything to you. Like and then some places, people would have done that. They just would have canceled me, and I just would have sat here quietly. Okay. Well, if you say so, but I know what my experience is. Yeah. And so I think with cancel culture, I would implore people to not cancel so quickly, even those who may who challenge our worldview deeply. Thank you for watching this episode of Healing Race and stay with us for a scene from our next video. If you wanna see more conversations like the one you just watched, please subscribe to our channel, share this video with friends and family, and like and comment on the video below. If you'd like to be a guest on one of our episodes and have an open real conversation about race, email us atguests@healingracehow.com. And if there are topics you think we should cover, we'd love to hear them. So please email your ideas to topics at healingracehow.com. As always, thanks for your support. We look forward to continuing the conversation with you. Now, here's a scene from our next healing race. But the conflict that I see is, on one side people say, we need to concentrate on racial issues because racial issues are real. Right? And so we need to see the George Floyd incidents. Mhmm. And then I hear on the other side, we're concentrating so much on race. Is it just dividing us further in creating more distance, more animosity? I don't know the way to thread the needle, but this is I guess a little bit of what I'm trying to I wonder your perspectives because you talk about how much these things are seared in your mind. To watch the rest of that episode, go ahead and click the video below me. To see a different compelling Healing Race episode, you can click the video below me. We look forward to seeing you in the next video.